Legislature(2021 - 2022)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

04/28/2022 01:30 PM Senate TRANSPORTATION

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SB 231 AK RAILROAD CORP; EXEC BUDGET ACT TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
+= SB 166 G.O. BONDS FOR INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 166(TRA) Out of Committee
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
            SB 231-AK RAILROAD CORP; EXEC BUDGET ACT                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:52:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MYERS  announced the consideration  of SENATE BILL  NO. 231                                                               
"An  Act  providing  that  the  Alaska  Railroad  Corporation  is                                                               
subject to the Executive Budget  Act; providing that expenditures                                                               
of the Alaska Railroad Corporation  are subject to appropriation;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:52:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MYERS opened public testimony on SB 231.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:52:41 PM                                                                                                                    
JACK  BROWN,  representing  self,  Anchorage,  Alaska,  spoke  in                                                               
support of SB  231. He read a hypothetical letter  he had written                                                               
to  illustrate the  ongoing dispute  and  litigation between  the                                                               
Alaska Railroad  and South Anchorage  homesteaders in  the Flying                                                               
Crown  subdivision along  an airstrip  in South  Anchorage, which                                                               
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     I'm a South Anchorage  homeowner and I've been fighting                                                                    
     the Alaska RR for 9  years now. Their long running lack                                                                    
     of budgetary  and policy oversight has  led directly to                                                                    
     the  gutting of  the value  of my  home. No  Alaskan or                                                                    
     American  should ever  have to  go through  what I  and                                                                    
     many others  have gone through. Hopefully  my testimony                                                                    
     here today  will be helpful  so that others  can better                                                                    
     understand what's  driving this  issue and  help affect                                                                    
     meaningful change.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I've  written a  hypothetical  letter  from our  Alaska                                                                    
     Federal  District Judge  Kindred, who  recently rewrote                                                                    
     140+  years of  ROW law  against Alaskans,  and in  the                                                                    
     process ma  a complete mockery of  our constitution and                                                                    
     settled law.  The letter is  written to  Homesteader Mr                                                                    
     Sperstad of who I'm a successor,  and all of the WW 1 &                                                                    
     2 Veterans and Miners who  came to Homestead and settle                                                                    
     in Alaska.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Dear Mr. Sperstad.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Congratulations  on the  April 17th,  1950, signing  of                                                                    
     your new  Federal Homestead Patent.  The US  thanks you                                                                    
     for  the hardships  you're willing  to  endure in  this                                                                    
     challenging environment and  your adventurous spirit to                                                                    
     help  settle the  last frontier.  It's people  like you                                                                    
     who will  set the  stage for  prosperity in  this great                                                                    
     land for generations to come.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     As you're  well aware sir,  the Alaska RR  transits and                                                                    
     completely   divides  your   new  Homestead,   and  the                                                                    
     following simple language is found within your patent:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
       xcepting and  reserving, however,  to the US  a right                                                                    
     of way  for the  construction of  railroads, Telegraph,                                                                    
     and  Telephone  lines in  accordance  with  the Act  of                                                                    
     March 12th, 1914."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     This simple  language would seem to  state the obvious:                                                                    
     the  US  has awarded  you  supreme  title to  land  and                                                                    
     divested itself  of all right,  title, and  interest in                                                                    
     the  property  with  the  new  Federal  Homestead  land                                                                    
     patent conveyed to you. However,  just like a road or a                                                                    
     canal, the  US must  reserve the  right to  continue to                                                                    
     safely  operate the  train through  your Homestead  and                                                                    
     requires a right  of way to do  so. Unfortunately, it's                                                                    
     not so simple.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     I  am  writing   to  you  today  to   ensure  that  you                                                                    
     understand clearly that, despite  what may seem obvious                                                                    
     in  the   patent  language,  the   actual  far-reaching                                                                    
     implications to  you, your  heirs, and  your successors                                                                    
     of having the Alaska Railroad  as your neighbor are not                                                                    
     addressed  within the  patent  language  and are  quite                                                                    
     extensive.  Let me  explain. I've  defined  for the  US                                                                    
     that the actual intent of  this sentence is to give the                                                                    
     US the  fee equivalent authority  to fence you  out and                                                                    
     otherwise  permanently deny  you any  access whatsoever                                                                    
     across  the  ROW for  the  purposes  of improving  your                                                                    
     private Homestead  property. If you have  the financial                                                                    
     means, present  and future  access "may"  be negotiated                                                                    
     at  the sole  discretion of  the RR  and it's  US owned                                                                    
     commercial real  estate division via annual  lease fees                                                                    
     and payments  calculated by the square  foot at current                                                                    
     market rates.  You should further be  warned that these                                                                    
     rising market  rates could  increase rapidly  and prove                                                                    
     cost prohibitive  to you and your  heirs and successors                                                                    
     either now or in the future.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:56:22 PM                                                                                                                    
     Additionally, any  agreed upon  leased or  other access                                                                    
     to your Homestead can be  rescinded at any time for any                                                                    
     reason whatsoever by  the US now or in  the future with                                                                    
     30  days' notice  if you're  unable  to pay  escalating                                                                    
     access and other ROW use fees.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     To further clarify:  in your area the  US only requires                                                                    
     roughly half of the  ROW acreage through your Homestead                                                                    
     to  safely operate  the  train or  build  a future  2nd                                                                    
     track.  The remaining  portion of  your fee  simple ROW                                                                    
     property   has   been   designated   for   non-railroad                                                                    
     residential   and   commercial  real   estate   revenue                                                                    
     generating operations  executed at the  sole discretion                                                                    
     of  the US.  I realize  that this  may be  a shock  and                                                                    
     confusing to  you and other  Homesteaders but  I assure                                                                    
     you this is the correct interpretation of the law.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:57:16 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE joined the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN continued to read his written testimony.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Even  though   congress  put  an  end   to  land  grant                                                                    
     railroads in America in 1875  to avoid this exact issue                                                                    
     for settlers like you, the  land grant railroad for all                                                                    
     practical  purposes continues  alive  and well  through                                                                    
     your  Homestead and  throughout the  Alaska rail  belt.                                                                    
     Although  technically  the  US recognizes  you  as  the                                                                    
     servient  owner in  fee of  the 200'  ROW land  and the                                                                    
     dirt  under the  tracks,  you have  no  legal right  of                                                                    
     access  or  control  over  any   of  these  ROW  lands,                                                                    
     including  those  large  portions of  the  ROW  acreage                                                                    
     completely  unneeded for  the  current  or future  safe                                                                    
     operation of the train.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Again   sir,  it's   our  privilege   to  welcome   and                                                                    
     congratulate you on your  new Alaskan Federal Homestead                                                                    
     Land Patent. We apologize  if denying you access across                                                                    
     the  Homestead we've  just conveyed  to you  causes you                                                                    
     any financial  or other hardship. We  do note, however,                                                                    
     that  you  do  indeed  have  access  to  some  of  your                                                                    
     Homestead  without having  to  trespass  on private  RR                                                                    
     land.  You're quite  fortunate in  this regard  as many                                                                    
     Homesteaders are  discovering that they have  no lawful                                                                    
     access to  any buildable  Homestead acreage due  to the                                                                    
     ROW location. They simply have  no choice other than to                                                                    
     try  and pay  whatever the  RR  demands or  give up  on                                                                    
     their  dreams of  Homesteading in  Alaska. So  again, I                                                                    
     must warn you that because the  US has held back a 200-                                                                    
     foot swath  of private property within  your Homestead,                                                                    
     it's  critical  that  you plan  your  future  time  and                                                                    
     investments  into your  property  very carefully.  Just                                                                    
     because  there aren't  fences  in  place today  doesn't                                                                    
     mean  you won't  be denied  access  or have  to pay  to                                                                    
     avoid fences  in the future  or be fenced  out entirely                                                                    
     if you  can't afford it or  refuse to pay. There  is no                                                                    
     "permanent" access  across the  ROW in  your Homestead.                                                                    
     The ROW across your land  for all practical purposes is                                                                    
     fee simple land grant RR land in everything but name.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Thank You,                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Judge  Kindred of  the Alaska  Federal district  court,                                                                    
     2022.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:59:48 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBERT  GASTROCK, representing  self, Anchorage,  Alaska, related                                                               
that  he  had  an  ongoing   dispute  with  the  Alaska  Railroad                                                               
regarding  the right-of-way  (ROW) for  over 11  years, mirroring                                                               
Mr.  Brown's dispute.  He  purchased his  home  when the  federal                                                               
government  owned and  operated  the railroad  but  sold it  last                                                               
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. GASTROCK  related that he  provided written testimony  to the                                                               
committee.  He  offered his  belief  that  SB 231  would  provide                                                               
executive  and  legislative  oversight of  the  Alaska  Railroad,                                                               
which has been lacking since  the Alaska Railroad Corporation was                                                               
formed in  the 1980s.  He offered  his view  that many  of ARRC's                                                               
policies were ill-conceived and  detrimental to public access and                                                               
private property rights.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:01:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. GASTROCK  offered his view  that ARRC acts with  impunity. He                                                               
said ARRC considers  itself a state agency when  seeking state or                                                               
federal  funding,  but it  uses  its  corporate status  to  avoid                                                               
disclosing financial  information to the public.  He provided two                                                               
examples when  ARRC had ignored  statutory requirements.  He said                                                               
that the patents received and accepted  by ARRC in 2006 were done                                                               
without  legislative approval  as required  by statutes.  He said                                                               
that  the  patents had  clouded  the  title of  property  owners,                                                               
including himself  and Mr.  Brown. He  explained that  the patent                                                               
was superimposed on the patent granted to Mr. Sperstad.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:03:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  GASTROCK stated  that the  legislature amended  AS 42.42.350                                                               
and  AS  42.42.410 to  say  that  the  railroad could  not  claim                                                               
exclusive  use  in   any  area  where  the   railroad  could  not                                                               
demonstrate  that  the  federal  government had  such  rights  to                                                               
transfer  to the  state. He  stated that  members might  be aware                                                               
that  ARRC filed  a  lawsuit against  Flying  Crown Airpark.  The                                                               
property  association had  asked ARRC  to honor  the statute  and                                                               
provide proof that the federal  government owned fee title to the                                                               
land or  something other  than a  surface easement.  Flying Crown                                                               
provided a  complete chain  of title  reports showing  that there                                                               
was  no  mention  of  any  interest  by  the  federal  government                                                               
regarding land ownership of any  portion of the right-of-way that                                                               
runs through  Tom Sperstad's homestead. Instead  of acknowledging                                                               
the facts, ARRC  filed a lawsuit in federal  court against Flying                                                               
Crown, which is still under litigation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:05:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. GASTROCK asked members to support SB 231.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SARA TAYLOR,  representing self,  Anchorage, Alaska,  stated that                                                               
the  Alaska  Railroad Corporation  (ARRC)  claims  to own  12,000                                                               
acres  of  land  along  a 500-mile  railway  corridor,  including                                                               
submerged land.  She expressed concern that  the legislature does                                                               
not have oversight over ARRC. She  referred to a US Supreme Court                                                               
case [Illinois Central  Railroad v. Illinois 146  U.S. 387 (1892]                                                               
regarding Illinois  Central Railroad ownership of  1,000 acres of                                                               
submerged lands.  The court  reaffirmed that  each state,  in its                                                               
sovereign capacity, holds permanent  title to all submerged lands                                                               
within its borders and holds these lands in public trust.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. TAYLOR  stated that Alaskans  have a constitutional  right to                                                               
free  access to  use navigable  waterways. She  offered her  view                                                               
that state  officials cannot disregard the  public trust doctrine                                                               
protections  when the  state received  title  to submerged  lands                                                               
along  the  Alaska  Railroad.  She   said  AS  38.05.126  is  not                                                               
ambiguous. She  asked members to consider  the substantial merits                                                               
of SB 231.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:09:38 PM                                                                                                                    
BONNIE WOLDSTAD, representing self,  North Pole, Alaska, spoke in                                                               
support of SB  231, noting it was a step  in the right direction.                                                               
She expressed  concern that  the state  does not  have sufficient                                                               
oversight  over  ARRC.  She  stated  that  in  2003,  the  Alaska                                                               
Railroad worked  to repeal  45 U.S.C. Sections  1208 and  1209 of                                                               
the federal  act. She summarized  that the adjacent  property was                                                               
to revert to the adjacent  property owners, but by repealing this                                                               
law, the  Alaska Railroad no  longer needed to comply  with those                                                               
provisions.  She referred  to the  Anchorage  lawsuit. She  noted                                                               
that then-Representative  Tammy Wilson introduced a  bill related                                                               
to railroad rights-of-way  [HB 93]. She expressed  an interest in                                                               
having the  railroad accountable  to the  people. She  was unsure                                                               
whether the remedy was to  expand ARRC's board members to include                                                               
property owners,  but she viewed  SB 231 as  a step in  the right                                                               
direction  because  it  would   provide  accountability.  The  US                                                               
patents that were issued before  statehood do not offer exclusive                                                               
easements. She  characterized the railroad's  exclusive easements                                                               
as an inverse take.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:13:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MYERS closed public testimony on SB 231.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MYERS held SB 231 in committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB166 version B draft.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
32-GS2543B Legal Memo.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
Port of Alaska Source of Funds Proposed SB166 GO Bond Grants.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
northern_intertie_and_dock_electrification_april_2020.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
University - FY23 GO Bond Projects Packet.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
Mat-Su FY 23 GO Bond Information Packet.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166
DEED FY23MaintenanceFinalList.pdf STRA 4/28/2022 1:30:00 PM
SB 166